https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/1461/archive/files/d5a3ef357d6f73e167d4df2a44dd91ca.mp3?Expires=1787788800&Signature=dpTQUr1lkOXOEhCnrQiQUdKAITKpwReu4bPY-ylCMYPuRigxctR4FTSDM20Za27Hi72lBldNzS1crIM-0F9XoJ9ZCFfMEw4njHXOvGNk6cIHxoTrk2oNBktkt8%7ExW1nAZ3VnqGkMXQ6nvjZ72QnivaWus04faTBraUib2gPhhhJUlYAkfekRfM7O-%7EfqthsJ9z6NobDtgAgwGhrTJp-QxEtQhFGWhfD%7EJtB5Ouv2Q58TwHDp722JgC-HkluB1pJJgJ0pkecp2Rr28ZrPErnFvvmNhxH6JU3KFb2IiiF8VACZ%7E3C3e9ExxatTioAJnV1CVPiiUACnt1PKyHffWoknqA__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM a6402623296be6d4bbb4e8b6a03894d0 https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/1461/archive/files/8e47b6ef5f8e86a29d079ffb517e877e.pdf?Expires=1787788800&Signature=OtON3WVQLl-m68JU-DajwCc89FinMST2WT5ACdjGOG-R9hr1v7hq4kr3yHCL4ph12nHMgX0zTcP-kXxLxC%7EYPKheHQcnq6uA6fEsiTI3xzANQqHib6pf-kBZFOCXp9l8FS4KIlhEAE6IJvQLcquYVK3FSuoA9LasB2sdV67upvN1F1MrLPSYpAyLo58hdtvL-1m2p962hw08T3kbd60UvGIGTsyC4Bipf6PIM1-Mpskr5J8NLrWwo8m0W3Kcpw%7E7ki-Cz3L4JziEHJUL8cwAaGYBAwTVTEqGO7iSNfY5WeVEDxWpngiLRtioo8MC5GM5RhrfshvQfr%7EgiF88CfzMHQ__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM 93b9e64dd81ba832ecf27cadef8183a1 PDF Text Text Oral History Interview with Greg Brown Date: November 18, 2025 Interviewers: Paula Frederick and Karen Shack, volunteers at Queer History Boston Overview: This oral history interview with Greg Brown was conducted for Queer History Boston by Paula Frederick and Karen Shack concerning Brown’s experiences as a gay man in New York City during the late 1960s, with a focus on Brown’s recollections of the Stonewall Riots. Brown describes growing up in Cohasset, Massachusetts, coming out to his parents, studying theater at Ohio University, and moving to New York City to pursue an acting career. He discusses his long-term relationship with his partner Paul, his early experiences participating in New York’s gay social scene, and the importance of spaces such as the Stonewall Inn where gay men, lesbians, and transgender patrons could gather despite ongoing police harassment and discrimination. Brown recounts his experiences at the Stonewall Inn before and during the Stonewall Riots, including police raids, confrontations with officers, and the escalation of resistance outside the bar. He reflects on how the events of Stonewall transformed his political consciousness and led him to become involved in the gay liberation movement in the years that followed. Brown also discusses the broader climate of discrimination faced by gay people at the time, the emergence of LGBTQ+ political organizing, and later developments including same-sex marriage, the assassination of Harvey Milk, and the HIV/AIDS crisis. He concludes by reflecting on the long-term significance of Stonewall in shaping LGBTQ+ visibility, activism, and community life Transcript: Paula Frederick 0:04 All right, the date is 11/18/2025, I'm here with my colleague. I am Paula Frederick, and my colleague is Karen Shack, and we are here from Queer History Boston to interview Greg Brown about his experiences and thoughts about the Stonewall Riots, to which he was an eyewitness. So let's go ahead and get started. All right. Because we're not doing the whole history thing, but I do want a brief—you know, want to know a little bit about your background, so can you tell me some things about where you're from? Greg Brown 1:00 Certainly. I'm from Cohasset, which is a little town south of here on the ocean. Beautiful. I was born in 1947, graduated high school in 1965. I knew I was gay at puberty, or I suspected I was. These are my lovely parents. I told them [I was gay] in 1967 and I remember I told Jane this. I remember my father saying, "Greg, I've had some very good friends who were homosexualists." And I said, "Dad, it's not a profession and it's not a crime." And he said, "Gregory, your mother �and I love you. We want you to be healthy and happy. I don't care where you find love in your life, as long as you find it," and that's the way it went. Paula Frederick 2:35 You're very fortunate. So did you by chance go to college? Greg Brown 2:43 I did. I went to Ohio University for two years, and then that summer of 1967, I met somebody at the Music Circus—which was a summer theater that I had worked at since I was 14—and he lived in New York, and I wanted to be an actor more than anything, and so I asked my parents if they wouldn't mind if I went to New York and start a career, and off I went that September. Paula Frederick 3:28 What did you study at Ohio University? Greg Brown 3:32 I was in the theater program. Paula Frederick 3:37 So this person that you met, what was this person to you? Greg Brown 3:43 He was my boyfriend and then became my partner of 37 years. Paula Frederick 3:51 Wow, that's pretty amazing. So you're in New York, and you are, how old? Greg Brown 4:06 20. Paula Frederick 4:07 You're 20. So what did you do? You know, ri ght after you moved there, what kinds of things did you do? Greg Brown 4:15 Well, I got an apartment, and before I went, I had the opportunity to meet a woman—sorry, it's the teeth—an older Italian lady whose daughter was in the chorus of the shows that came through. They would come through and play our theater, and then go off and play another. And Jan's mother, whose name was Fifi. Fifi Tanzilo. So Fifi Tanzilo came to meet Jan, and happened to meet me, and I said, "Oh, I'm on my way to New York." And she said, "Well, I manage some young people who are actors. Would you be interested?" I said, "Yes." So I went to New York, and she got me an agent for commercials, for print, for theater, for soap operas, all different agents. And I started—my dad was so happy—because I started that month getting paychecks for one thing or another. And ended up doing a movie—which that picture's �from—doing commercials, loads and loads of national commercials for which I got paid residuals, soap operas, theater. And I did that for many, many years. Right then, do you want me to keep going? Paula Frederick 6:10 Well, I wanted to ask you a little bit about—other than your work, what did you do? You know, in the community around you? Greg Brown 6:25 What brought me to Stonewall was, like so many gay people, we were looking to find places where we could find one another. And Stonewall was one of them. Very small, but it was one of them. And we had a habit—I was thinking last night, how odd—of going dancing on Sunday nights. A big night. Stonewall Riots, I think were on a Saturday, but we would go all the time. Tuesday, we would go, because we would love to dance with each other. So we would socialize that way, and then we began to make friends, and we would socialize in one another's apartments. Going out to dinner was a big thing, holding hands out to dinner. This sounds like a tiny little, little thing, but here I was able to behave this way in public or in [inaudible 0:008:00]. No. Paula Frederick 8:04 How did that make you—I just wanted to get confirmation of your partner's name. What was his first name? Greg Brown 8:14 Paul. And he is still alive. And is a psychologist in New York. I think one of the reasons that we maintained our relationship for so long is unlike many other young people in the gay community, we made a decision right away that it was going to be monogamous. That we weren't going to play the field, because I had guys coming at me on left, right and center. And of course, wanted to play around, but didn't. Paula Frederick 9:07 So you had quite a commitment there. You had quite a commitment to each other. Greg Brown 9:11 Yes, for 37 years, it was like that. Paula Frederick 9:17 I was going to ask you when you first—if you can remember—had the experience of being able to hold hands in public without fearing, you know, any kind of retribution or harassment. Do you remember what that was like for you, initially? Greg Brown 9:37 Yeah, it was a sense of power. �Paula Frederick 9:42 Power? Can you say a little more about that? Greg Brown 9:52 Reminds me of a lyric in the song, "I am me. I am not someone else. Someone else is someone else. I am me." That I could be who I am and believe in who I am, and that gave me this sense of of well-being and power, that I could go anywhere and say to anyone, "I am Greg, I'm gay." So I guess power and pride. Great pride. And I was proud of him too. Paula Frederick 10:45 You were in a couple. Greg Brown 10:46 Yeah. He was very good to me. Paula Frederick 10:54 So how long, roughly, were you going to Stonewall before the riots happened? Greg Brown 11:03 Let's see, I arrived in September of [19]67. Paula Frederick 11:08 Right. Greg Brown 11:09 So it was September of [19]67 and the riots were in June of [19]69. Stonewall was different. Tt went through many changes. I don't know if you're aware of that. The mafia owned it. There weren't many clubs, but they owned most of them. And there were laws against me, I was illegal. You couldn't dance with somebody of your own sex, you'd be arrested. Kiss them, you'd be arrested. Dress in a feminine manner if you were male, arrested. Same for a girl, if she dressed butch, she'd be arrested. And there was a time as [19]69 moved on where they were enforcing these rules. Paula Frederick 12:22 Who was enforcing them? Greg Brown 12:23 The police. They were raiding. The Stonewall had many raids before the riots. They were just quiet. They would come in and part you, make their presence known. I was on a soap opera, and doing national commercials. I didn't want the sponsor I was working for to know I was going to the Stonewall because my living would be taken away. And it was Paul that reminded me of that, "You have to be very careful, Greg, because if they knew, Spic' n Span would not hire you and put you on the face of their product." I always forgot that just barged ahead. �Paula Frederick 13:21 So when you were at the Stonewall Inn before the riots happened, did you experience that then, the police harassment? Greg Brown 13:32 Well, you know, it was soft compared to the riots. But yes. Paula Frederick 13:39 And how did that feel for you? Greg Brown 13:41 Oh, it was frightening. Because of the realization I could lose my income and never have a career. I would look for photographers, but they were never there. It was frightening and it was infuriating. It made me want to fight— Paula Frederick 14:05 But you didn't? Greg Brown 14:07 —and become belligerent—I got a little belligerent. Paula Frederick 14:11 How were you belligerent? Greg Brown 14:13 "What the fuck are you gonna do? Arrest me. Come on!" Paula Frederick 14:20 Did they ever? Greg Brown 14:23 No. Paula Frederick 14:25 Did they ever arrest anybody else in your presence? Greg Brown 14:28 Not in those early days; now in the Riots they did, but in those early days, they didn't serve liquor. They didn't have a liquor license, so you had to bring your own bottle of vodka, and they kept it for you. When you come in, they put your name on it. You come in and they say, "Hi, Greg," and bring out the jug of whatever. Paula Frederick 14:58 Wow, sounds like the speakeasy days. �Greg Brown 15:01 Exactly. Because they didn't have a license to serve. Paula Frederick 15:06 And this was while the mafia was running? Greg Brown 15:08 Yeah, the mafia ways also running it the night of the riots too. Paula Frederick 15:15 What was the role of the people from the mafia, and you know, what did they do when they were there? Greg Brown 15:24 You never saw them, or if you saw them, you didn't know that that's who it was. They had a bar manager and a bartender and waiters, just like a normal club would. It was small. There was a front—my memory, I'm almost 80—a small front room. You come through the door and there was a small room with a bar in—I think that's where the bar was. And then you go through some doors and a much bigger room, and I have this image of cement floors—I don't know if that in fact, they were—back in the big room, and that's where the dancing took place. But then dancing took place all over. The night of the Riots, I was dancing with Paul in the front bar room, in the front room, which was mobbed. And they came in, but it was different. Paula Frederick 16:36 What sort of people went to the Stonewall Inn? Greg Brown 16:46 I wouldn't say that you would see a lot of affluent, successfully dressed people. Young, middle aged. Paula Frederick 17:06 Were there any gay women? Greg Brown 17:08 Yeah. The night of the Riots. Yeah, yep, they would dance, we would dance. And there were also transsexuals. Just a few. Paula Frederick 17:25 And how diverse racially was the mix? Greg Brown 17:28 Oh, interesting. Not. It was mostly white. My friend, my friend—what was his name?—George. Forgive my memory. George, who was like 6'5", was African American. And it was through �George that I really started to learn about their struggle, and I learned so much from him and identified my struggle with the struggle of the African Americans of the day. Paula Frederick 18:21 Was he an actor friend? Greg Brown 18:23 He was a "mo-del," model. Paula Frederick 18:26 [Laughter] Can you say anything about what the women were like and how the men interacted with the women? Greg Brown 18:37 Well, I don't know how others reacted. I reacted really normally. I liked them, I liked girls. I don't mean sexually "like" them, but I liked [inaudible 0:18:55] I liked their minds, I liked everything about the feminine side of humanity, if that makes any sense. So I interacted really well with them and danced with them, and they would dance with Paul. But I wasn't the only one. They had a lot of gay male friends that seemed to hover and be around them. Yeah, it was new to all of us. It was new to be in a big room with your boyfriend or your girlfriend and dancing and hugging and giggling and laughing and having fun just like your straight friends do every night. This was special for us. We never did it before. Paula Frederick 20:07 This may seem like a strange question, but were the women lesbian, or homosexual? Greg Brown 20:14 Yeah, they were. They were "lesbetarians," as I call them. Paula Frederick 20:17 "Lesbetarian," yes, yes. Greg Brown 20:20 They were lesbian. Paula Frederick 20:23 Did women have any bars at that time, that you know? Greg Brown 20:29 I would imagine so? I wouldn't think very many. And I don't know the exact answer to that. I never went to one that I can remember. Although the girls must've taken me to one, I can see them now sitting in my apartment, and they weren't the type to be shy. The type to say, Come on tonight, we'll go into one of our bars. But I don't remember. �Paula Frederick 21:07 Now I'm asking you something that you may not be able to answer, because it's not really from your perspective, but I'm wondering why women wanted to go to the Stonewall Inn. Did they ever say anything about it? Greg Brown 21:27 I don't remember anybody saying anything about it, but my sense is that there weren't any places where they could go and dance together and be one another. My sense is there wasn't much out there for us, and by us I mean gay men and gay women, and they were welcome there. Paula Frederick 22:00 I wonder why they were welcome there. Because, you know, there were a lot of bars. Greg Brown 22:05 There was— Paula Frederick 22:08 You know what I'm talking about— Greg Brown 22:09 Yeah, there was, Paula Frederick 22:10 —I lived in San Francisco, so, you know, there's sometimes you do not go in those bars, those men's bars. Greg Brown 22:17 I think that came later when there were more bars. Paula Frederick 22:21 Ah, good point. Yeah. Greg Brown 22:24 Yeah, I think that certainly came later, because I would have been in those bars. But the Stonewall—and maybe this is why they raided it—the Stonewall was a place where everybody felt free to be. And the girls did, too. I'm not talking about one or two women. I mean, there weren't as many women as there were men, but there were a good amount of them, and they didn't raise any eyebrows the way yours are raised right now. They didn't. They didn't. It was just the way it was. Paula Frederick 23:17 Did you by chance view Stonewall as a dance club, because you said you really, you and Paul really liked to go dancing. �Greg Brown 23:30 Yeah, we loved to go dancing. Paula Frederick 23:31 So you thought of Stonewall to some extent as a dance club? Greg Brown 23:36 Yeah, and have a couple of drinks. From the vodka bottle behind the bar. Yeah. Exactly, exactly. I mean, not the cleanest glass. It wasn't a clean place. Where later, in later years, we would go to a club that had lovely tables and a tablecloth, and sit down and order a margarita and then the whole place would be gay. But that didn't exist in [19]67. It was a gin joint. Paula Frederick 24:25 You know, there are a lot of stories about the Stonewall Riots, and who started it, and you know, how it got going, and who were the more prominent people, or not, who were resisting the police harassment. So what was your perception? What happened in to the extent that you were experiencing it? Greg Brown 24:53 I have very vivid memories. I was one of the first to get tossed out. Paula Frederick 25:03 The night of the Riot—the first Riot. Greg Brown 25:07 I would sit in the front room, near the front, near the door, and I first thing I saw was a white man dressed, like, in a business suit. I thought that was odd, and he turned out to be a detective. And then some uniformed police officers behind him, and they went up to the bar. Must have spoken to the barman. And I don't remember anybody saying, "This is a raid," but the first thing I ever remember is people being shoved in a crowded room. If that guy over there is being shoved, it eventually gets to you. Do you know what I'm saying? I mean, if I'm shoved, I'm gonna bump into the next person. So there was that movement through the room from people being shoved or moving abruptly and arriving to me and Paul—I shouldn't laugh, because this was so him. He made this sound, "aah!" and he always did that, and it scared the hell out of me whenever he did that, like whenever startled, he would make that sound. And I went, "What?" And the next thing I knew, there was a billy stick [crosstalk] like in my ribs, not hurting me so much, but pushing me. And that's when I got really, really belligerent with, I don't know what the words were, something along the lines of, "What the fuck do you think you're doing?" And hit back. And then the next thing I remember was being grabbed by the scruff of the neck, by the �collar. Always, I always wore buttoned down shirts. Was grabbed by the collar, and out the door I went. The door was right there, out I went onto the street. I wasn't the only one out there. There might have been 20, 30 people, but they hadn't even made it into the back room yet. So what happened in there? I don't know because I was on the curb, but the more people came out, the more people started screaming and yelling and shoving back. This is outside, and more police cars arrived, more and more. And then the next thing people noticed from the apartment buildings that it was going on, and there was a lot of gay people lived around there. It was Christopher Street. It was the West Village, where gay people lived—it was gay heaven. It's like the Castro District. And they came out of their buildings, and the crowd grew, and the people in the park—I would assume this was a gay man cruising in the park—came out and joined and the crowd just swelled. And I got really nervous. I saw my career go up in flames. And I said to Paul, come on, we're getting out of here. And we walked a couple blocks and hailed a cab and went to a club that George—the big Black kid—had told us about on the Lower East Side that was very heavily tranny. We went to that, to see what that was like. Paula Frederick 29:31 You remember the name of it? Greg Brown 29:32 I don't. We didn't stay long because I piped up with "To hell with this shit, I'm going back. What are we doing here? Running away, I'm going back." Screw the career. [Laughs] Karen Shack 29:50 Why did you decide to make the decision to go back? Greg Brown 29:59 It sparked something inside of me. It lit something. It was the first time I ever felt it. It angered me so much that I wasn't going to give up, and I haven't yet. Paula Frederick 30:30 Thank you. Greg Brown 30:32 [Laughs] You're welcome. Yeah, it caused me to become political. You know, I became an ardent follower of Martin Luther King. Paula Frederick 30:52 We can talk about that a little bit more. But so what happened? Then you went back? Greg Brown 31:00 Yes. What happened? The crowd was monumental. It was huge. So many people had gotten thrown out. And so many people had, I guess, come out of their houses, out of all the bars, somehow, because it was very loud and there were a lot of lights. I remember, a lot of lights, and people thrashing, and punching and shoving the police and getting clubbed. And you know, �it wasn't like a big space with people spread out. It was like a street corner where people were all compacted so the movements were all close, not not spread out. Paula Frederick 32:18 Were there people bleeding? Greg Brown 32:20 That's a good question. I don't know. I didn't see anybody horribly hurt. I saw people thrown into paddy wagons, you know, police cars. I might have seen people like holding their heads or something, but an enormous amount of blood, I'm sure there was, I just didn't see that. Eventually, Paul said, "I'm getting out of here. I want to go home." And I delayed that as long as I could, and then we went home. Paula Frederick 33:11 What kinds of people who went to the bar were engaged in these physical altercations you talk about? Greg Brown 33:19 People just like me. Paula Frederick 33:21 Women? Greg Brown 33:25 I would imagine there were, I don't remember. Paula Frederick 33:31 Transsexuals? Greg Brown 33:33 Yeah, yeah, they were really fighting. They were really fighting. The girls, the trans girls that were in the front room with me before I got out—I had never met anyone trans before, that I was aware of. So I was fascinated talking to these girls, and surprised that their [laughing] masculinity came out when they were outside. These can't be the same girls I was talking to in there, but because—they knew—I don't know how to fight. I mean, I've never really been in a fight. I don't know how to do it, but these girls did. Amazing time. Paula Frederick 34:39 You said that for the most part, with rare exception like this one friend of yours, the the patrons of Stonewall were white, right? Greg Brown 34:53 Yeah, I would say. �Paula Frederick 34:54 What about the night of the Riots? Who was involved in the Riots? Were they maybe other people from the neighborhood and stuff like that? Greg Brown 35:06 Well, I don't mean to say that it was all white. It wasn't, it was Latino, it was Black, it was mostly white. Paula Frederick 35:18 But when the Riots happened? Greg Brown 35:20 —but isn't that the way it always was back then? Whites and Blacks didn't mix all that much. Paula Frederick 35:30 But when we're talking about these physical fights, was it both white people and any racial minorities involved in that? Do you remember? Greg Brown 35:48 I don't remember, but I would imagine there were. What do the history books say caused—who caused them? Paula Frederick 35:58 Well, I think that— Greg Brown 36:04 —who do they say caused it? I don't know, I'm asking. Paula Frederick 36:12 The police. Greg Brown 36:13 Well yeah, but they don't say transsexuals started it, or gay white boys started it, or Black kids started it. Paula Frederick 36:25 No, but they do talk about who was involved in the resistance of it. So it's interesting to know if there was a large number of people of color who were fighting, or was it pretty much a mixed bag. But, you know, you only saw it from your perspective, so you didn't have this overview, you know, that you could see everything that was going on. Greg Brown 36:53 No. �Paula Frederick 36:54 Yeah, okay. Greg Brown 36:56 Lot a white people. Paula Frederick 37:00 I mean, I think one of the reasons we're interested in talking to people like you is because there are these other perspectives, and, you know, different claims. And a friend of mine, this is nothing to say about you, but he said to me in an interview, he said "everybody was at Stonewall. " Greg Brown 37:26 He's right. Yeah, he's absolutely right. Paula Frederick 37:36 Okay, so was that the end of it for you, that one night? Greg Brown 37:40 No! Well, do you know why they call it Riots? They don't call it the Stonewall Riot. Because it lasted six days. Karen Shack 37:57 Yeah, so tell us about the next day. What happened with you the next day? Greg Brown 38:00 Went back. Didn't get in, I think it must have been boarded up. Hung out. Nothing really much happened, lot of yelling, lot of screaming. The following June was the first Gay Lib[eration] March. Paula Frederick 38:30 In New York City? Greg Brown 38:31 In New York City, to the Sheep's Meadow, which is in the middle of Central Park. And I lived up off of Central Park in the West 70s, so we just cut over to the Sheep's Meadow. We didn't do the parade thing. The next year we did. We went down to the Stonewall and we marched up, I think it was Sixth Avenue, and the world was there. Paula Frederick 39:09 Were people calling it a parade or a march? Greg Brown 39:12 No, it was a march. It wasn't a parade. �Paula Frederick 39:15 I wonder when that [inaudible 0:39:19]— Karen Shack 39:19 I want to hear more about those marches, but I want to know a little bit about the year after the initial Riots, those six days, and what you were thinking and doing between then and that first march. Greg Brown 39:39 Well, my life changed that night. I became very political and a little bit belligerent. And angry, I couldn't believe that in the United States of America I was illegal [laughs] I mean, this was like— Karen Shack 40:13 So what kind of things were you doing? Greg Brown 40:15 Every March on Washington, marches in Boston, political marches. There was always something going on—or demonstrations. Karen Shack 40:28 And what kind of political stuff were you doing that first year, right after those first Riots at Stonewall? Greg Brown 40:43 Well, I didn't. I don't have any memories of being in a room or meetings or that stuff. All my memories are being outside. There were things in Washington—was Nixon president then? I don't know who was president, but whoever it was, I think we— Paula Frederick 41:06 If you're talking about [19]72, he was president. Greg Brown 41:10 Yeah, marching against him. Constantly working, doing whatever I could in opposition of his administration. You know, I was a history student, and it felt like what Nazi Germany must have felt like for the Jews. I compared it to that and that my life depended on fighting back. That's how it felt. You know, my sister and I went out for a cigarette here one day, a year or two ago, and I think it was a police officer or somebody came up to us and said, "Smoking is illegal in Braintree." My sister, who is 15 years younger than me, said, "Where the hell are we? Nuremberg?" And I was listening to my own voice, my kid sister. Paula Frederick 42:30 What did you think needed to be done in terms of a political movement? Did you think about that much? �Greg Brown 42:36 Yeah, that we needed to start to elect representatives that represented me. Paula Frederick 42:47 And by that you mean gay? Greg Brown 42:52 Yeah. I knew enough that next day and the weeks and months that followed, that we weren't going back. That this was real, that life has changed, that it's only going to get tougher and be more successful. I had no doubts in my mind that that was going to be the case for me and the case for my Black friend George. Karen Shack 43:31 Tell us a little bit about how this experience impacted your friendships and relationships. Greg Brown 43:38 Well, if you weren't with me, you were against me. I don't know if that's a good thing. I suppose it's probably not, but in the beginning, I was not willing to listen to anybody who would think that being gay should be anything similar to illegal or not permitted. And I would think a lot about what it must have been like to be a Jew in Europe. Even now, decades later. I've been thinking a lot about that, because I had read so much that I felt like I had been there. And in a certain way, when I would consider and think of my own life, I was. I had been there. I mean, this is what it was like. Much worse. I'm not being beaten, murdered and starved to death, but I'm being discriminated against. People who don't even know me, don't like me. Or wouldn't want their children to know me because of who they assume a gay person is. And they're wrong. It's just wrong to do. Paula Frederick 45:35 What were your parents thinking at the time? Greg Brown 45:39 They were: "Be careful. But you go." Paula Frederick 45:44 They were supportive? Greg Brown 45:49 They were beautiful. They loved me so much and they understood me. Paula Frederick 45:55 Did you have many straight friends at the time? Greg Brown 46:02 �Yeah. Paula Frederick 46:03 Did the Stonewall Riots and your reaction change those relationships? Greg Brown 46:10 Yeah. Paula Frederick 46:10 How so? Greg Brown 46:14 Well, some of the straight friends that I had, I knew before I was out. I grew up with them. And they knew I was gay before I told them I was. They had assumed. But I was so radically political that some of that rubbed off on them. You know? And they supported me in those efforts, and even joined me at— Paula Frederick 47:11 Allies. Greg Brown 47:13 Allies, yeah. Think of Gay Pride Day at Central Park, where some of my cast members in the show I was doing joined me at the rally. God, that felt so good. Paula Frederick 47:32 I was going to ask you how also it may have affected your career, your work. Greg Brown 47:37 I don't think it did. I think there were so many gay actors in the same position that I was in, that people were coming out of the woodwork. Not just actors, but all kinds of people were coming out and announcing that they were homosexualists. Paula Frederick 48:05 [Laughter] Remember the expression "homophiles"? Greg Brown 48:09 Yeah. Paula Frederick 48:11 That was an early one. Greg Brown 48:12 Yeah. It was. �Paula Frederick 48:14 I have to tell you something funny. A gay male author was speaking at an event, and he was saying how he was part of the Homophile Society. And people kept thinking that it was the Hemophiliac Society. [Laughter] We knew we had to change something there, you know. So, yeah, homophile. Karen Shack 48:38 So did it get easier to be out at work after this point? Greg Brown 48:46 I never felt weird. I suppose— Paula Frederick 48:52 I just need to stretch. Greg Brown 48:54 Oh, yeah, go right ahead. Around here, you ask if you're okay. Did it feel weird at work? I guess there must have been times where I felt strange. Karen Shack 49:10 No, I was asking if it was easier for you to be open about being gay at work after this. Greg Brown 49:17 Yeah, because it felt just more natural to be like that. That was more who I was, than to be closeted. To be fearful. To be closeted means you've got a lot of fear. I mean, you're afraid, and that's no way to live. I mean, you know it, it's just no way to live with that kind of fear touching everything. So to feel free to be myself just felt powerful. Paula Frederick 50:10 Looking back from the time of Stonewall and going forward, because there were a lot of things happening with the movement in those following years, right? Which kinds of things happened that affected gay people, that in your mind were particularly memorable and important subsequent to Stonewall Riots? Greg Brown 50:41 The legalization of gay marriage. I think Paul and I in 1970-71 or so, we would have definitely married by that, and we would have looked into how to have children. Paula Frederick 51:09 So that was a watershed event. Greg Brown 51:11 Yup. �Paula Frederick 51:12 To you, obviously, to a lot of people. Greg Brown 51:14 Yeah. Paula Frederick 51:15 Any other things that were happening with the community that you remember that were particularly noteworthy subsequent to Stonewall? Greg Brown 51:31 Yeah, assassinations, murders Paula Frederick 51:36 Like? Greg Brown 51:38 Who was it? Paula Frederick 51:39 Harvey Milk? Greg Brown 51:40 Harvey Milk, thank you. My mind. Paula Frederick 51:47 Yeah. And that was pretty— Greg Brown 51:55 Hideous. Paula Frederick 51:57 —hideous, yeah. I was in California. Greg Brown 52:04 You were ? Paula Frederick 52:06 At the time. Yeah, I was in San Diego and then San Francisco. So, yes— Greg Brown 52:10 What happened? Paula Frederick 52:11 �—well, you know, there was a riot after the assailant— Greg Brown 52:18 He was with Mayor Moscone. Paula Frederick 52:20 Mayor Moscone. But the assailant, Dan White, was given a very light sentence, like five— Greg Brown 52:27 That's right, and people— Paula Frederick 52:29 —for murdering the mayor and the supervisor, Milk. And then there was a riot in San Francisco. And I still have the San Francisco Chronicle front page with the Riots. They were burning cars and breaking windows in City Hall. Greg Brown 52:44 Yeah because they had, like, two weeks probation. Paula Frederick 52:46 I don't know if there were any other Riots. Greg Brown 52:49 There must have been here. Must have been. Paula Frederick 52:53 Well, definitely, people would have made note of it. I mean in terms of the gay, lesbian population—I mean, two were the two. The Stonewall and the Harvey Milk protests— Greg Brown 53:07 There must have been and I would have gone to it. Paula Frederick 53:10 Yeah, right. Greg Brown 53:11 Do I remember it? No. I remember it happened. But weren't there others? Karen Shack 53:26 Well, you you shared in the last interview that you did that we read about what happened with your career after you decided to leave New York and you got involved with a lot of political movement. Greg Brown 53:41 �Well, what happened was some gay men started dying, and they didn't know what it was. And I—I'm sorry, it's just difficult. Karen Shack 54:10 Want a tissue? Greg Brown 54:19 I had a friend that got sick and died, and they didn't know what it was. I forget what they called it—they called it something I don't remember. Karen Shack 54:32 They did for a while. One thing was "the gay disease." Paula Frederick 54:36 The "gay cancer." Greg Brown 54:39 Yeah. And then they isolated something and came up with HIV-AIDS. And I don't know, was I back [in Boston] then? I must have been—I came back to Boston. We got tired of New York. It was LA or Boston, and I didn't want to go to LA. So we came here. Paula Frederick 55:14 As an actor you didn't want to go to LA? Greg Brown 55:16 No, I think I was kind of tired of show business. I wanted something—I found it—something that was more important to do with my life. Paula Frederick 55:46 And that was? Greg Brown 55:48 Well, I came back here and immediately started modeling and acting [laughs], because it was an income and I needed one. And then I went to work for the AIDS Action Committee, which was the first AIDS service organization in Boston, along with the Fenway Community Health Center. Paula Frederick 56:19 And what was your role there? Greg Brown 56:27 They had the AIDS Walks. So I went to work for the AIDS Walk, raising money. And then from there, I went into major gifts, where I was very successful. �Paula Frederick 56:43 You say major gifts? Like donations? Greg Brown 56:46 Major gifts. I was very successful because I looked at all the rich people that were walking—in fact, I know this doctor, and I know this person, and they're walking but they're contributing money that they raised from other people. What about their bank account? That's what I went after, and I had a great success. And I just graduated from position to position to position. Paula Frederick 57:23 And you were paid. This was a job. Greg Brown 57:26 Yes, I was paid very well. Paula Frederick 57:28 Well maybe being an actor? Greg Brown 57:32 It helped. It definitely helped. And having been through coming out, I wasn't afraid of approaching people. I am who I am. I'm not someone else, someone else is someone else. Karen Shack 57:49 Who said that? Greg Brown 57:51 I don't know who said it. Karen Shack 57:52 I like that, though, was it in relation— Greg Brown 57:54 Not him, not her, not us, not we. Paula Frederick 57:57 Is it from a Broadway musical? Greg Brown 57:59 Yes. Yes it is. Everything I say is. So that meant a lot, and I lost almost everybody. Their pictures are up there. Some of them, not all. Karen Shack 58:23 Who's the bearded gentlemen? �Greg Brown 58:27 That's my friend Seamus [sp?]. I grew up with him in Cohasset. He died from AIDS. He was a brilliant artist. He died from AIDS. He was very young. Paula Frederick 58:44 At this point in time, you're looking back on the Stonewall Riots experience. Do you think of it any differently now than you did at the time? With years of reflection, does it mean something different to you now than it did early on? Greg Brown 59:20 I think I can answer that by saying I look at it now as the beginning— that's too dramatic—but the beginning of life. I look at it now as the very first day of life. Where at the time I looked at it as political fighting. But it's much bigger than that. It's much, much bigger than that. Young people come out now. They know about Stonewall. They're unafraid. Parents are informed and unafraid. It's just all different. And that night started it. is that an answer to the question? Paula Frederick 1:00:45 Very much so. Very much so. Greg Brown 1:00:54 This has been very nice. Been very therapeutic. Thank you. Karen Shack 1:00:59 It's been wonderful for us to hear all the details, and I think— Paula Frederick 1:01:04 —you have a very good memory, and you're very expressive, since you're an actor—anyway, is there anything else you wanted to say before we tie this up? Other than thank you? Thank you. Well, we thank you. Greg Brown 1:01:20 And you could come back anytime, if you so desire. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Oral History Interviews by Queer History Boston Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource circa 1983 through 2026 Description An account of the resource Queer History Boston, formerly The History Project, has been collecting oral histories of LGBTQ+ individuals in and around the Boston area since the 1980s. This collection contains oral history interviews conducted by QHB's volunteer-run Oral History Committee. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Queer History Boston Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Digital content made available by Queer History Boston is intended for personal research and educational purposes. Commercial use or distribution of this content is not permitted without prior permission of the copyright holder. Queer History Boston holds copyright to select content, while copyright to other content may be held by authors, artists, or their heirs, or may be in the public domain. Requests to reproduce, distribute, or publish content should be sent to info@queerhistoryboston.org. Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral history Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Coll. 115 Alternative Title An alternative name for the resource. The distinction between titles and alternative titles is application-specific. Queer History Boston Oral History Collection Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 1:01:40 Bit Rate/Frequency Rate at which bits are transferred (i.e. 96 kbit/s would be FM quality audio) 128 kb/s Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound. Transcript attached Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview. Frederick, Paula Shack, Karen Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed. Greg, Brown Location The location of the interview. Massachusetts Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Oral history interview with Greg Brown Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 11/18/2025 Description An account of the resource This oral history interview with Greg Brown was conducted for Queer History Boston by Paula Frederick and Karen Shack concerning Brown’s experiences as a gay man in New York City during the late 1960s, with a focus on Brown’s recollections of the Stonewall Riots. Brown describes growing up in Cohasset, Massachusetts, coming out to his parents, studying theater at Ohio University, and moving to New York City to pursue an acting career. He discusses his long-term relationship with his partner Paul, his early experiences participating in New York’s gay social scene, and the importance of spaces such as the Stonewall Inn where gay men, lesbians, and transgender patrons could gather despite ongoing police harassment and discrimination. Brown recounts his experiences at the Stonewall Inn before and during the Stonewall Riots, including police raids, confrontations with officers, and the escalation of resistance outside the bar. He reflects on how the events of Stonewall transformed his political consciousness and led him to become involved in the gay liberation movement in the years that followed. Brown also discusses the broader climate of discrimination faced by gay people at the time, the emergence of LGBTQ+ political organizing, and later developments including same-sex marriage, the assassination of Harvey Milk, and the HIV/AIDS crisis. He concludes by reflecting on the long-term significance of Stonewall in shaping LGBTQ+ visibility, activism, and community life Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Queer History Boston Brown, Greg Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Brown, Greg Shack, Karen Frederick, Paula Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Digital content made available by Queer History Boston is intended for personal research and educational purposes. Commercial use or distribution of this content is not permitted without prior permission of the copyright holder. Queer History Boston holds copyright to select content, while copyright to other content may be held by authors, artists, or their heirs, or may be in the public domain. Requests to reproduce, distribute, or publish content should be sent to info@queerhistoryboston.org. Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral History Language A language of the resource English Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 115_Brown_Greg_2025 Subject The topic of the resource Stonewall riots Coming out AIDS Action Committee of Massachusetts