https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/1461/archive/files/eee3743837d3dc33ccbacb241f4f8aa5.mp3?Expires=1780531200&Signature=PBgxWJkGpboOc4shdnKuy4ldLlXMM7Ks8TWxGqwuYwSXJ%7EfbBU2Nudmfmlurq6DuOFjvPhRkJmtjBburvpV504R%7ERDAe%7EDzkrTOjcUlC%7EXW-5JEuGIPYZ-JQcYRHUJaMGT-naJcYPxSDvkTm%7E8zEs4%7EFMulLsA5g2KGTKSEw-WnG%7Ew3hCmtYeUuhQCMAtH0ssA3XGp1nSD9QAH5Le3LHb2FIszKei4u%7EaCZDHkL4kQE5YE7TlcdkHFG-Ns%7EIC0fx%7E3McaYm9q%7EnM5N5mvJQ65jjIwu8BTCnjN5XIa75-0Hcl8AKKibohBHLAC%7Ei7WOA7V2rYl6m94dMV7bKvipCtAw__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM 8db1f3980bd054a5c08cd3fe9c62abd7 https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/1461/archive/files/850536969e72667b94726cd0d894bd22.pdf?Expires=1780531200&Signature=Po5oGeQimUfuIm6ld3I4An2Xrt5e8TeEMe3CegCEljyN5ncbsfWUGX5oW8uUxLImM4eqZJGd4lLnC16G9Ev156qvJR9MwHuc2wng3p1gIgQ2kLccAzMF655ll7bBTQ1WNQH7AzQS19MOe9F9NdJA2RTTgjAca%7E786p6iqoVamPJsawfxN3yGyqyDRAEeNrJGOY2QPRhwxlH46aOWGW0CRLQ1bU12egu4-wAw-UN-RFxG%7EUMtsDMvdDXpfa17plX1egVcAoA3p%7EeqHBpsJVMwb1FZEUdO8bRaelICsLK0T8rUCvG1RHUHAarbGQEhujVZoz2Wdn%7EXbCERkoFwXCwD-w__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM 1287b576a868a55aaa2dca922fa035d9 PDF Text Text BOSTON Daughters of Bilitis Oral History Project Transcript of: Sheila Ardery Interviewers: Lois Johnson, Sarah Boyer, Laura Catanzaro March 15, 2019 �SARAH BOYER: This is the DOB project, and we have Lois Johnson, who’s going to be the interviewer. And Sheila... SHEILA ARDERY: Ardery. SB: Ardery, who is our interviewee. And I’m Sarah Boyer, and Laura Catanzaro is here also. So, we’ve got a grand ‘ole party going here. (laughter) Anyway, this is wonderful to see you, Sheila. And Lois, would you like to start? LOIS JOHNSON: Yes, indeed. I would also like to add to that, this is being made at a location in Jamaica Plain, at Springhouse, which is an independent living facility. Am I speaking loud enough? SB: Yes, you are. You’re fine. LJ: Okay, I’m projecting. I would say, Sheila, thank you so much for doing this. SA: I’m honored, actually. [00:01:00] LJ: We are honored indeed, too. The first thing, we’d like to have some context for the interview. The interview is going to be primarily about DOB, or Daughters of Bilitis, an organization which was in Boston for, well, 25 years. And the first thing I would like to do is to ask you about your early years, you know, where you were born, where you were living, what kind of family life, anything you want to tell us. And where you went to school, etc. SA: Well, I grew up in Erie, Pennsylvania, born in 1947, May 13, 1947, into a typical American, bluecollar family. My dad was a carpenter, [00:02:00] and then became a construction superintendent. My mom was a housewife who, after we all [grew] up and went away, did things like work at the local retail store or something. Nothing big. And I went -- we were an Irish Catholic family, blue collar. I went to 12 years of Catholic school. And I had a nice -- I’m not complaining about my upbringing at all. I think it was a good thing. We also owned cottages most of my life, on the lake, so we spent summers being on the lake. And I had good friends. I’m still in touch with my high school friends. Erie was 130,000 people at the time, so it had kind of a small-town feel to it. And a lot of people still live there, and they raised their kids there, and 1 �so that was very nice. The complication [00:03:00] began when I didn’t want to get married. When I was about 20 and 21, I realized that my love of being with my -- oh, I went to an all-girls school, too, high school. That my love of being with my high school friends was, first of all, getting disrupted because they were getting married. And secondly, I didn’t want to get married. And I felt bad about that, but I didn’t exactly think... I didn’t have the words for it. I didn’t have the environment for it, exactly. But I became somewhat unhappy. So, I just kind of -- I didn’t want to be a nun, either, which was the obvious, obvious thing, you know, other thing. LJ: That was the other thing. SA: But I didn’t want to be a nun. And I didn’t want to be a teacher, and I didn’t want to be a social worker, and I didn’t want to be a nurse. And I didn’t want to get married. So, it was a funny place to be in for a woman [00:04:00] in 1967, ‘68. So, I went to work for the Hammermill, because that’s what you did there. You went to the GE or the Hammermill or many of the wonderful manufacturing companies that no longer exist there. And I started getting... You could, at that point in time, they paid for your education, if you went to Penn State. So, I was getting free education in the evening. So, at 24, I decided to go and get my degree. So, then I spent two years down at Penn State. During that time, I was hanging out with a bunch of hippies, because we had this all-volunteer drug crisis center. I was turning from a preppy to a hippie, basically. And my place was getting a little large, my head was expanding, my consciousness was expanding [00:05:00] a little more. We’re going into the early ‘70s, too. I also got involved with the anti-war movement through the Benedictines. And so, we did this thing called the PAX Center. We did educational programs. So, my middle years of that, besides working and going to school, were around social issues. The drug crisis center was ‘72, ‘74, until I left to go to Penn State. And the PAX Center was about that same time, too. And I met wonderful people through that. But when I got down to Penn State, I thought, “I’ve got to get serious about this relationship stuff. I’m like, mid-20s, and I haven’t done anything yet.” So, I decided I was going to try to date this guy, but it didn’t work out. And I just, it’s not like guys [00:06:00] didn’t come along 2 �the way. Of course they did. But I just was never hooked on them. And I really loved my girlfriends. And I began to become more aware of the fact that I was actually sexually attracted to women, in addition to just emotionally. So, when I went there, I actually stayed away from the Women’s Center at Penn State, because I thought, I don’t want to get more sucked in, basically. And because I still had this idea of myself. I was like Ethel Kennedy. I was going to be Ethel Kennedy. I was going to marry some nice guy, and we were going to have like eight kids. And then I went back, and it was ‘74. And I had a job lined up. But this woman by the name of Sister Peter Claver, who ran something called the House of Prayer, and was from the Catholic Worker [00:07:00] Movement, she actually gave Dorothy Day her first dollar. And so, she was in Erie, and she had gotten all the women together to start a women’s shelter, because there was no place for women to go. And they were actually brought to the jail to spend the night, because they didn’t have any place else, if... And so, I told her I’d give her six months. And in the meantime, you know, she hooked me into it, first of all. So I went with the idea that I was going to spend six months living in this house that was a shelter for women. We could take in about three families and two adults. And there was two of us. Somebody from the PAX Center, actually, and myself did it. And I stayed for six years. We grew the program. I have a talent for administration, let’s say it that way. So we grew the [00:08:00] program. And in the meantime, I became connected to women down in Harrisburg who were meeting to start the Pennsylvania Coalition Against Domestic Violence (PCADV). And that really opened my eyes up, because in all of my experiences of Erie -– and like I said, I avoided this in Penn State, I just hung out with my friends that I knew –- all of my experience in Erie, every lesbian I met, of course, was outside the box. Because if you’re in Erie, you’re not going to get outside that box if you care at all about your propriety or whatever. So I’ve always felt like that wasn’t me. But then, I went, and these wonderful women, who were lesbians, who were lawyers, who were family members, they had kids, they had partnerships. And it was like, that’s me. That is me. And so it was [00:09:00] like ‘74, ‘75. I mean, I wasn’t young. I had to be almost 27. And I started meeting, and in fact, I got 3 �involved with a woman down at (laughs) PCADV. I also became, I’m quite proud of, the second president of PCADV. And so, we took that and ran with it for a while. And then, in 1982, I decided that I -- I tried to go to graduate school in Erie. By that time, I was Director of Hospitality House, going to graduate school at Gannon for a Master’s in Public Administration, and president of PCADV. And a closeted lesbian with another closeted lesbian roommate, and a straight roommate, and two gay guys upstairs. I mean, we were the [00:10:00] original Friends, let me tell you. We had a lot of fun. And I was coming out. I was coming out. So I thought, “I cannot stay in this town. Even though I have built a life for myself, it’s confining me. I can’t grow here.” And just an aside -SB: You’re talking about Erie? SA: Erie. SB: Okay. SA: And I looked around, and I thought, “If I were to leave, what do I want to do? I want to get out of sheltering and into housing.” And I looked at the Erie Housing Authority, and John Horan was my age. So, in Erie, you know John Horan was going to stay there until he retired, because that was his job. I looked at a non-profit housing organization called HANDS that was founded by Chuck Scalise, Sr. And Chuck Scalise, Jr. was the assistant director. So you knew that Chuck Scalise, Jr. was going to be the director of HANDS. And there was really no other housing. And so, I said, “Well, besides the fact that I was getting more -- I had met people from Mass [00:11:00] and women from Massachusetts, I had met lesbians from Massachusetts, and I was like, “I’m going to Mecca.” Boston, you know. It was Mecca to me. And so I arrived. I got into Tufts, got a, what do you call it, a scholarship and some assistance. And the very, very first day that I was sitting there, I was sitting next to Heather Hersee. And Heather and I just had an affinity off the bat. But neither of us -- I didn’t know she was a lesbian, she didn’t know I was a lesbian. We just were classmates together. And it really wasn’t until about three months later, when she invited me to the Marquis, and I walked into the Marquis, that we could actually say to 4 �each other, “Oh, you’re a lesbian.” (laughter) It was really funny. And then we became buddies, and Heather brought me to DOB. So that’s the background. LJ: That’s wonderful. [00:12:00] SA: Yeah. LJ: Oh my goodness. Could you tell us a little bit more about your family, and you know, and your relationship to your mother, father, siblings? SA: Oh, yeah. I have one sibling, Gail, who’s nine -- eight and a half years younger than me, and who moved to San Diego when she was 18. So honestly, we didn’t really make our acquaintance to each other much until about 20 years ago or so, when she moved back. I mean, we always recognized, you know, we got together for holidays and everything. But she got out of Erie as fast as she could. And she wasn’t a lesbian. She just wanted out of Erie. And so she went to San Diego until her mid-30s. And then she came back to Erie. My mom and dad, my mom was 28 when she had me. Dad, of course, served in -- she was faithful to my dad while he served in the service and then came home. And they started a life together [00:13:00] and a small family. And I only had an aunt and an uncle, my Aunt Rita and my uncle. They didn’t have any kids that we were close to. On my dad’s side, we had his brother, Jim, and his wife and kids. But then, as families do, they had a falling out. But that wasn’t until many, many years later. But that’s kind of who I grew up in the middle of. Oh, and when I was little, Dad, because he was from a rural area in Appalachia, everybody came up to live with us for a while so that they could get jobs. So I was, as a little kid, was surrounded by Aunt Louise and Uncle Jim and grandpa at different times, or always. And I’m sure that was a terrible stress on my mother, because we didn’t have a big house. But, that’s the way life was then. And so -- but my mom and dad were very much involved in [00:14:00] my life. I went to a parish grade school, and they were active in the parish. And they volunteered for things. And then, when I went to high school, I always say my mom and dad came home from my prom later than I did, because they were the chaperones. 5 �(laughter) So they were involved in my life. My mom -- my dad was the typical dad, kind of in the background. Kind of. LJ: He was a typical ‘50s dad? SA: He was a typical ‘50s, working-class dad. And I did things with him. You know, I painted the fence, and I did stuff. And we ate every night at dinner, and all that kind of stuff. But as far as decision-making and stuff like that, my mom was the real kid-tender. [00:15:00] But she was one of those -- and this is why I didn’t go to school until I was 24, because she was one of those -- I give her credit, because most mothers can’t do this. But “Whatever you think, honey. Whatever you think.” Well, it left me a little aimless. So nobody pushed me to go to college. In fact, when I was taking sociology courses because I could, from Hammermill for free at Penn State, it was a sociology professor who pulled me aside and said, “What are you doing?” And I said, “Well, I can take these classes. I don’t have anything to do in the evening. I might as well go to college, because I can do it for free.” And he said, “You’re smart. You should really think about finishing your degree. What’s your aim in life?” At that time, I was just such a mess. I didn’t have an aim. And so he really encouraged me, said, “If you need any help at all, let me know.” So I have tried to pass that on, [00:16:00] as a manager or whatever. I encourage people who are early on trying to figure out what they’re trying to do and stuff, I really try to give them maybe that little push that you need to give you a little focus and go. But my mom was, I mean, nobody went to college in my family, so why was that important? I actually took secretarial courses, predominantly because I had a crush on Gail Soliwoda, and she was taking -- yeah, really. And so, my mom was a very easy-going person that way. But when it came -- you know, we had no consciousness about lesbianism, so it wasn’t even on the table in the ‘60s and the ‘70s. There was none of that. But yeah, she was a very kind-hearted person. And we had these cottages in the summer, so we kind of played [00:17:00] together, the family did, which I think was really a big help. And yeah. 6 �SB: Can I just ask you, it’s obvious that you started thinking about -- started having crushes on your girlfriends and whatever. SA: Yeah, yeah. SB: But being brought up Catholic myself, I had no inkling of any feelings about women at all. It wasn’t even on the screen whatsoever until I got into high school. Was it -- I take it it was never talked about at all in your house? Or -SA: No. SB: There was no discussion of it. Did you feel anything different about yourself, though, when you were a child? SA: Yes, I did. And I think a lot about transgender kids, because I’m quite comfortable having been a woman, [00:18:00] a cis woman my entire life. But I think I’m a cis woman with some butch, not really big butch. But when I was a little kid, I hung out with the guys, because that’s who was in our neighborhood, actually. David and Gary were my two best friends. Marlene went away for the summer. When I was little, we didn’t have this cottage all summer long. But the people that I hung with, and my best friend was Gary. And I said to my dad -– now, you’ve got to understand, my dad’s a working-class guy -– and I said, “Gary was a very sensitive guy, wasn’t he?” He said, “Yeah. I always thought he was a Nancy boy.” (laughter) So here we have me. Oh, my mom’s favorite story about me is that we were about six years old or something like that, and we’re playing out in the backyard, she can hear us. And he said, “I want to play house.” I said, “Oh, I want to play sheriff.” [00:19:00] No, “I want to play cowboys and Indians.” And he said, “Well,” you know, we went back and forth, back and forth. And I said, “Okay, Gary. We’re going to play house. You be the daddy, and I’ll be the sheriff.” (laughter) Isn’t that great? My mother told that a hundred times. SB: I love it. SA: Yeah. And she was a tomboy growing up. So, you know, to her, I was just following in her footsteps, because she was a tomboy. And so yeah, it was a pretty -- nobody -- you know, I 7 �didn’t feel guilty about anything. And actually when you’re, did you go to an all-girls high school? SB: Oh, no. (laughs) SA: Well, people had crushes. They just did. And Gail couldn’t go until she was 21. Her mother wouldn’t let her. But she went into the White Sisters of Africa. So she was my big unrequited love, because we were close after getting out of high school. And -- maybe she [00:20:00] went when she was 20. I don’t know. It was a couple of years, though. But we’re friends to this day, and she did leave White Sisters. She did go into a marriage, had two kids. And now, she’s in a relationship with a woman in the end. So I always knew that. And that’s been about 15 years now. So yeah, I had -- but, I read somewhere, and it really stuck with me. And I just thought of it, that this is a phase. And I just thought I was a late bloomer, and that I would get interested. And I did have a guy that I dated. Ironically, his name was Wally, and my dad’s name is Wally. But he was tall and handsome and blue-eyed and blonde, and he was going to inherit his aunt’s company. He was, to me, what I wanted in Erie. And I wanted to marry him. He came from a big family, I was friends with his sister. [00:21:00] And I wanted to marry him. I had this idea, “I’ll marry him, and we’ll have like eight kids and just have fun.” (phone rings) Uh-oh. LC: I’m sorry, I should have -SA: That’s okay. (ringing stops) And that had to be, I took him to my first class reunion, so it was around, I was around 21, I remember. And we did mess around a little bit. But it just didn’t work out, and we just had to go our separate ways. He was a good guy, though. But that left me with a lot of confusion. And then that’s how I got to be a hippie for a while, and I just hung around with a bunch of people that, you know, we just had some good times, but I was never attached to anybody. [00:22:00] LJ: You’ve given us a nice, rounded feeling about things. SA: (laughs) Good, thank you. 8 �LJ: And it’s very interesting. During that time, let’s talk a little bit about your work. I think that you did touch on that, but could you expand just a little more on that? SA: Well, I think I’ve always -- I did work for the Hammermill, but I’ve always been attracted to nonprofits. When I got out of high school, I really wanted to go to work for the Civil Rights Department at Erie City Hall, but I couldn’t get in. But, my work has always been, since 1974, has always been around housing. So those [00:23:00] six years, I actually lived in for over two years in this building, as a -- taking care of the shelter with another woman. And we had a bedroom upstairs. And we had a pull-out couch in the living room. So, one of us, for a week, would sleep in the living room, and one would have the privacy of the upstairs, and then we would switch. And that was because, many times, people came in the middle of the night, and you had to answer the door. So, we did that for two years. And then we finally, the diocese gave us a loan to buy a house that was more adequate to our needs. It was owned by a doctor. It had four bedrooms, had a lot of common area space, and it had offices on the side, because in the old days, doctors had their offices in their homes. And this house was built for that. So that was just a prize. And so, we did that. And so, I was, from 1974 to [00:24:00] ‘81, maybe going into ‘82, at the domestic violence shelter. And like I said, I was heavily involved in Pennsylvania Coalition Against Domestic Violence. SB: And where was that? SA: Well, it was based in Harrisburg. The offices were in Harrisburg, but it was a membership coalition. And I became the second, like, I was the first vice president of the west. We defined -Pennsylvania’s big, so we couldn’t figure out if Carol or I should be the vice president. So, a good feminist thing, we decided to divide the state up into west and east. And Carol became the east, because she was Scranton. And I became the west, because I was Erie. So, we had two vice presidents to start. And then I became the second vice president. And that seems to be my talent, as it comes to, is [00:25:00] in non-profits. I found myself very often being the second president, which means that the vision goes first. And then the operations, how to implement that vision. 9 �JL: How to keep it going. SA: How to keep it going. That seems to be somewhat my talent. Because, to continue along that line, I came here, and I got involved with RESPOND. That went through a big -- we had to figure out how to get past the housewives of Somerville being on the board and get some professional people in and all that kind of stuff. So I came along at that time, became the president, [and] we figured out how to do that. And by the time I left, we had fund development people. We had lawyers. We had professors. And we still had the core group of Somerville. And then, so when I left RESPOND, I [00:26:00] came to Newton, because I had met Linda. And The Second Step started up, which was a -- it’s not a shelter. It is a second step out of the shelter. It’s long-term housing. A woman and her family can move there, they get goals, and the idea being that when they leave, they are self-sufficient in six months to a year. Which, you know, that’s... And then we continue to support them. And there are people living all over Newton right now who wouldn’t have been in Newton, their kids wouldn’t have been in Newton schools if it wasn’t for The Second Step, so that’s the big one. And we have a Newton cop who’s graduated from The Second Step. It’s really fun and -- to see this outgrowth. But anyways, I -- the founders -- I came along, and I was -- they had just started it. I knew one of those women that had started it. And they’d been working for like six years, the founders. [00:27:00] But they opened it up. I was at the opening, they asked me to be on the board. So, I ended up being the first expanded -- on the first expanded board. And then, of course, the founder being somebody who wanted to keep control, didn’t want to expand it anymore. And then it was like this tension, and she left. And so, I became the second president, as I did in PCADV, that actually, then, we started getting bigger, and we bought a second house. So, and like I said, my background is community development. So it’s just my interest and talent. So that part -- so, there’s two professions going on. One is my volunteering profession, which I just talked about, and the second is, I came to Tufts, graduated, [and] went to the Boston Housing Authority. And I wanted to work in real estate [00:28:00] because I knew that’s where the money was. And I was getting older, and I was going to -- I 10 �didn’t want to be a social worker anymore. I wanted the real money. But I still wanted to work for a good organization. So, Boston Housing, I wanted to be a capital planner, but they saw my resume, and I went and did an internship. And they said, “I want you in the community services, to do this survey about what’s going on in the 30 elderly developments.” So, I did that, and then they hired me to implement the recommendations. And I was like, “I’ll do that if, eventually, I can get over to the planning department.” So, I did that for like two years. I started this consortium of health and social services there, that pulled in all the Boston home care agencies and some of the medical schools. We had a nice -- I don’t know how long it lasted -- but we had a nice thing going on there. We got some money, and we got service people in there. This is way before there were services in elderly housing. [00:29:00] [Around] ‘83, ‘84. But then I went over to the planning department. And I was working there, and I was quite happy working there, and then they closed the planning department because there was a fight between construction and planning, and Doris Bunte, the director of the BHA, landed on the side of the construction department. And she decided the only way to end this argument, which was construction’s ripping us off, is to actually close the planning department. So, we were all out on the street, every single one of us. LJ: Good way for change. (laughs) SA: Yeah. So then, I went over and talked to Eleanor White, who I had been working with on a project through the BHA. And she was the assistant director over at Mass Housing Finance Agency. So, I went over to Mass Housing Finance Agency, and I was there for 12 years. And a good job, really good job, and I enjoyed it. You had a portfolio of loans [00:30:00] and basically you make sure all the strings are attached to those things. Then, along came another opportunity, when I was like 55. They reconstructed the administration of Jewish Community Housing for the Elderly to include a Vice President of Operations. And so, I was friends with the woman who was the president of Jewish Community Housing, Ellen Feingold. And, she called me up, and she said, “Do you know anybody who’s interested in this job?” And I was like, “Yeah.” (laughter) 11 �LJ: Like, “Me!” (laughs) SA: Yeah, really. So, I went over there. And for 10 years, I was at Jewish Community Housing, overseeing their operations. LJ: Is that the same as Jewish Rehab? SA: No, that’s -- Hebrew SeniorLife owns Jewish Rehab, HSL, they call it. And Jewish Community Housing for the Elderly had three developments in [00:31:00] Brighton in one campus. We had over 700 units there. Golda Meir House by Woodland T in Newton, and Coleman House on the JCC campus. So, during my tenure, those are the developments that I oversaw. There were managers in these two that I supervised, but I was the manager for the campus here. And that pretty much covered the base. And then while I was there, and just before I left, they opened Shillman House in Framingham, which I didn’t really have that much to do with, except to get the budget going and stuff. So that was my career. LJ: It sounds wonderful. SA: When I went to Tufts, I was in urban and environmental policy. LJ: You certainly have been busy. (laughs) SA: Yeah. Well, I was more busy before I retired. And now, I don’t know, I don’t volunteer or do anything at this point. Well, I shouldn’t say that, but I don’t really volunteer officially for anything, you know. LJ: Could you expand a little bit on how you met [00:32:00] Linda? SB: Could you talk up just a little bit, if you can. LJ: Excuse me. Would you expand a little bit on how you met Linda? SA: Oh, yes. So, that’s -- Heather introduced me to DOB. And we created a good crowd. Sometimes, it would just, I think, in those moments, just kind of click. And in that, say, ‘85, ‘86, Janet and Nicky came in from out of town. I came in from out of town. Joan was new to DOB. You know, there were just a bunch of people that just kind of showed up the same fall. And we just were like-minded people. And there was about, I don’t know, maybe eight of us or so, 10, that 12 �just clicked. We just started doing things together, you know? And it was -- [00:33:00] and that fit me, as you can tell from my past experiences, I really had not had a serious relationship. I just like being with people. And so, it fit me perfectly. I was very happy. And through that, we saw these pictures of going to P-Town together and going up to New Hampshire together. But, I was looking, you know? So, I didn’t really find anybody in particular, but it’s funny. At one of the Thanksgiving meals, I don’t know why... but Linda was a librarian by training. And she had a bunch of books out, I guess she was selling books or something like that. But she was standing up while everybody was sitting down. And she was a new face, too. So, I was just looking at her, and I was very interested. I was just interested. [00:34:00] And I remember, I was sitting over here, and she was over there. And then Steph Marcos, during the transition, wanted to run for vice president of DOB, or something like that. So, I went to vote for her. And I was very tired that day. And, I remember I was sitting on the couch, kind of like this, just waiting to go like this,(raised my hand) because I was just exhausted. And, they were saying that they needed somebody to take care of the library at DOB. And I heard this voice say, “Well, I’m a librarian. I could do that.” Or something innocuous. LJ: She was saying? SA: Pardon me? LJ: She was saying it, Linda was saying. SA: Yeah, and it was Linda. And I was like, “Who is that?” I think partly because I recognized a nonBoston accent. (laughter) But she had a good, strong voice. [00:35:00] It was just clear as a bell to me. And I raised my head up and looked around, and I couldn’t figure out who said it, because -LJ: “Where was that coming from?” SA: Yeah. Where was it coming from? So then, I found out where it was coming from, and then we did this strange maneuver, because then Joan gave a financial talk, and I went to it, and she went to it. And I went up to her afterwards, and I said -- and I knew who she was by that time, been 13 �watching her and everything. And she was talking to Mimi, I think. So I went up to her, and I started talking. I said hi to Mimi and everything. And then I just casually turned to Linda. and I said, “I don’t think we’ve met.” And, you know, we introduced ourselves. And then I just tried to casually say at the end of the break, “Do you want to go for coffee afterwards?” And she said, “Well, no, I can’t.” And I was like, “Okay, fine.” Well, what I found out was she had already turned somebody else down that she didn’t want to go to coffee with, and if we went to coffee, [00:36:00] we would end up at the same place that this woman was, so she couldn’t go with me. But she was interested in me, too. So then, I don’t know what else happened, but [Tracy Powers] got involved in it. Tracy was a friend of Linda’s and a friend of mine. I went out to dinner with her, and I told her I was interested in Linda. And so, she became my advocate and said to -- I know, isn’t this something? (laughter) I mean, this is me never really having a, you know... And so -LJ: And she was good at managing it. (laughter) SA: Right. So, Tracy sang my praises to Linda and kind of told her that -- and so somehow, we both knew that we were going to be at the DOB birthday party at Somewhere Else [a bar in Boston’s financial district]. So, it was really interesting. Because when I walked in and walked up to her, it was as if we had planned to meet, but we didn’t really talk. [00:37:00] It was like we had talked through people, not really... It was pretty funny. But it worked. It worked. LJ: It’s wonderful that it did. SA: And that was February of -- or January maybe. It was the dance, the end of January. LJ: Yeah, usually it would have been. SA: Right. The end of January of 1988, I think, ‘88, yeah. So that’s how we met. And we started to compare things. And we were on the softball field at the same time, and we didn’t pay attention to each other. We were at a, remember the brunch place in Fenway, right? It was called The Empire or some weird thing like that. LJ: Yeah. 14 �SA: It was a brunch place, and DOB periodically would say, “Okay, we’re all going to meet for brunch [00:38:00] at the brunch place,” whatever this place was. It was huge, and it was a buffet. LJ: I know, I remember it. SA: Yeah, it was a buffet. And so it was easy to do. So, I think we were sitting like four -- you know, when we talked about it, we were sitting like four seats away from each other, but we didn’t -LJ: But you didn’t know. SA: Didn’t know. I was onto somebody else at that point in time, I think. And so it was funny, because we’d been around DOB together, doing the same thing, but it wasn’t until then that we actually made the connection. And that was lovely. And she had plenty of friends from DOB, because she was in a different group of people. She was with Barbara and Carol Tye and... LJ: Mary Mumford? SA: Mary Mumford and that crowd. And then I was with Janet and Nicky. So, we both expanded our [00:39:00] DOB friendships exponentially. LJ: There were, at one point, 150 members. So, you had a chance to expand. SA: Mm-hmm. And I’m sure it was right around that time, because we’d have a dance, and we’d easily get 100 women there, if not more. Yeah. So that was lovely. I’m very grateful. We both were very grateful to DOB for giving us -- she had come from a relationship, I think, of about seven years, that had ended. And she was trying to get back in the game, you know, and trying to get out there and meet people again. And so, she had used DOB that way. And I talked to her ex. She and her ex became very close, because they were almost like sisters then, when they split up. After a period of hating each other, they got together. [00:40:00] So, in fact, I talked to her yesterday, Louise Forrest. I don’t know if you know her or not. She was never part of DOB. LJ: What was her name? SA: Her name was Louise Forrest. She’s an Episcopal priest. But that’s how I met Linda there. And I had just bought a house. And she had a house in Newton. Luckily mine, I had roommates, so I could easily just let it rent out to my roommates. But I didn’t move for a year, because I didn’t -15 �you know, I wasn’t like, totally U-Haul, you know? [The joke going around the lesbian community at the time was that two women would meet, fall madly in love, and on the second date, one would rent a U-Haul and move in with the other woman.SB] But I probably lived there most of the time between ‘88 and January or February of ‘89, but I told her I wouldn’t move in for a year. So, not moving in for a year meant that I didn’t bring my furniture and my cat. But basically, I was there. (laughter) LJ: You didn’t belong to the crowd that [00:41:00] immediately cuddled up. SA: Right. I was a little too old for that, I think. LJ: And said, “Get me a truck.” (laughs) SA: Yeah, right, the U-Haul lesbian. I was not the U-Haul lesbian, but I was pretty much living there. And I went home, and I told my mom. And I wouldn’t tell her until I had a relationship to talk about. That was one of the thoughts that I had about, when do I come out to my mother? And I had a very close gay friend in Erie, by the way, Rick Jenks. And we went everywhere and did a lot of things together. And she kept saying, “Well, what’s...” I said, “Mom, I’m just not the marrying kind.” That’s all I would ever say. And then Rick moved to New York City, and then I moved to Boston, so that broke that up anyways. But when I did find Linda, I wanted to tell her. I wanted to tell my mother about Linda. So I went home, and I told my mother about Linda. And she said, like she always did, “Whatever you think. [00:42:00] Whatever makes you happy.” And that’s all she ever wanted for me, was for me to be happy. And then the next line, she said, “Don’t tell your father.” (laughter) LJ: Or your aunt. SA: Or my aunt, yeah, right. So, I never actually did. But they soon after that moved to Florida in the wintertime. And they came to visit me. So, without speaking -LJ: They knew. SA: I mean, my dad’s not blind, right? LJ: They knew. 16 �SA: He knew. And then we’d go golfing, my dad and I, and I said, the way that I really delivered it even more was, he’d complain about mom, and I’d complain about Linda. (laughs) LJ: A couple of guys on the course. SA: Yeah. And even now, I have [00:43:00] Deb. And he knows Deb, and Deb’s -- we still have cottages on the beach. And Deb comes. SB: Who’s Deb? SA: Oh, Deborah is my current -- Linda died in 2008. I’m sorry. So, Linda died in 2008. And there was no DOB, but there were meet-ups, so that helped me get back out. But now I have Deborah Maine I met in 2012 or ‘13. Thirteen, I think. And, it’d be like January of 2013. LJ: Do I know her, Deborah? SA: You probably met her at OLOC, but it’s not like -- she lived in New York until 2008. LJ: I see. SA: She’s actually emerita from Columbia University. She’s in international public health. And she [00:44:00] came, she retired emerita from Columbia University, came to Boston University as a step down from running $50 million international health programs, to just teaching and doing some small consulting. And they wanted to come to Boston, she and her partner, because they wanted to get married. And at that time, New York wasn’t allowing it. But they felt they needed to get out of New York. So that’s what they did, 2008, I think, they came. It doesn’t make sense, but something like that. I’m getting it all confused. But it had to. So anyways, because her partner died in 2009. Yes, it does make sense, okay. So, she came, and her partner died in 2009. So, we met in 2012. And you know, I’m still in the same house, [00:45:00] the McCauley house. Now, the one thing you know is that Barbara McCauley is in the mix here. LJ: Yes. SA: So, Linda McCauley has a sister who has cerebral palsy and developmental disabilities, who actually, when I met her though, was working at -- she could walk, and she was working at Children’s Hospital. She actually worked at Children’s Hospital for the better part of 20 years. 17 �But she is now in a group home because she’s in a wheelchair. She’s 67 with cerebral palsy. It really takes a beating, your body does. But, I am still very much part of Barbara’s life. Barbara was always -- we were always a family. We were always Linda, Barbara, and me. And we travelled together. Linda and I bought a timeshare, a quarter-share in Provincetown. [00:46:00] And we would go there once a month on a weekend, mostly come on Friday, leave on Monday morning. And so, Barbara shared our life. But the other -- the flipside of that is that house was the McCauley house. Linda and Barbara’s parents bought that house in... SB: Don’t lose that thought. LJ: Hold it. This is a wonderful interview. SA: Well, thank you. I’m so glad that you asked. It was just great, looking at those pictures. LJ: Oh, yes. SA: And so yeah, the McCauleys bought that house in the ‘60s so that Barbara could go to Newton schools. Because she was very mildly -- is very mildly developmentally disabled. And her dad was a lieutenant, major, or something I forget what you [00:47:00] call it. But anyways -lieutenant colonel in the Air Force. So, he went to work at Bedford. And then he retired and became a civilian and worked at Bedford. He was an architect. She missed that one. (laughs) So I have been living in that house for 31 years, if I count 1988 almost always living there, except I didn’t have my cat. I’ve been living there for 31 years. I thought about that. I never lived anywhere for 31 years, (laughter) but I’ve been living there. LJ: I’m not trying to trump you, but we lived in our house 50 years. SA: Wow. LJ: We didn’t want to leave. SA: I loved those -- I can’t tell you how much those Christmas parties meant to me, because I -- being away from home, being away from family, and having somebody to celebrate Christmas with, to sing those carols, that was [00:48:00] a fun thing. We sang carols, and we’d always do, all of us ex-Catholics, we’d do Adeste Fideles. (laughter) And but we just had a lovely time there. 18 �LJ: Well, we always had a wonderful time with all the people in the house. I mean, the house was just -the thing that I think the most of is the conversation, the people talking and talking and talking. And having a wonderful time and relating and knowing they were with all lesbians. They could say anything they wanted. No one was ever going to worry about anyone knocking on the door. (laughs) And sitting, you’d go to the top floor, and people would be sitting all around on the floor, on the couches, etc., just... Enjoying themselves. [00:49:00] Being who they were created to be. And there they are. SA: And I’ll tell you, that’s important, because one of the very first parties I went to, Heather invited me to a party in Charlestown, and we were at a brownstone in Charlestown. And we were having a good time. And there was a knock at the door, and there was a bunch of thugs that came in and called us a bunch of bad names. They were downstairs, and they heard the -- they were complaining about the noise, but they were also, you know, after us, yeah. LJ: Being prejudiced. SA: Denigrating us because we were lesbians and all that kind of stuff. So that was, to me, new to this big city, that was pretty terrifying. LJ: It’s scary. SA: It was. It was terrifying. So, to be in a safe space like that, and to have such a wonderful house to party in and such wonderful people to be around, it was great. [00:50:00] LJ: It was wonderful for us, too. As I’ve always said, you always even get more than you give. You do. SA: Yeah, yeah. That’s great. LJ: Let’s see. You had a thought. Are we ready to record it? SA: Oh, yeah. We’re recording it. SB: Oh, we’re recording everything. SA: Yeah. It started again. LJ: Oh, good. SB: Don’t worry. 19 �LJ: I don’t want to intrude on your interview. Let’s see now. What were we talking about? SB: Well, you were just explaining about how -- Sheila was -SA: Oh, you asked me how I met Linda. SB: Linda, and then you talked about Deb. And how did you meet Deb? Just to -SA: In a meet-up. SB: In a meet-up. SA: Yeah. Well, first we became acquainted in October of 2012, at a games night, Ova4D games night. And I really liked her, so I waited until [00:51:00] she sat down. And then I went, and I sat down next to her. And we had a nice evening together. But she was still working. She was on her way to India. She did a lot of consulting internationally, so she was always in and out of town. She didn’t tell me, but she was moving. And she was going to have cataract surgery in the next month. So, she put me off, in terms of any kind of thing. She just had too much going on. I was like, “Okay, fine.” So then, I was at the Mass. Breast Cancer Coalition dance with a friend. And I saw her, and I thought, “Who is that? Where do I know that woman from?” She’s very striking, because she has white hair, like you do. And it’s in a pageboy. I can show you a picture of her. And she -- I was like, “Where do I know that woman from?” And I was, “Oh, yeah, the games night.” So, I went over and introduced myself. [00:52:00] And then we started dancing. And then, by the time she left, we had made plans to go to the ICA for lunch, to meet at the ICA for lunch and see the ICA. And one thing led to the other. So, we were going on our test trip by December. (laughter) We went to -- I was just looking at the pictures the other day of that. We went on our test trip. LJ: Oh, yes. SA: Yeah, Costa Rica. We went down to Costa Rica together. SB: Oh, the test trip. LJ: What a wonderful place to have it. 20 �SA: Yeah, really. And so somebody said, “Oh, yeah, the compatibility tour.” So yeah, and so we’ve been together ever since. We just came back from St. John. We travel a lot now, because she retired shortly after. She moved in in December 2015. She retired, I think, that September, [00:53:00] or that was the last of it. And so, we’ve been traveling a lot. We went, in 2017, when we turned 70, we went to Patagonia, Alaska, the Canadian Rockies, and Morocco, all in one year. LJ: Wonderful. That’s great, wow. SA: Yeah, that was a great year, wasn’t it? So, we went to St. John three weeks ago. And Deb is going back to Morocco with her niece next week, and I’m going down to Florida, to see Jenny, among other people. But she loves Morocco, and she’s been there many times. So she wants to take her niece to see it. Yeah, so life is good. LJ: Wonderful. SB: Could we talk a little bit more about DOB, Lois? LJ: Yes, I was thinking that. Could you tell [00:54:00] a little bit more about how active you were in DOB? What, just any feelings you have about it. SA: Well, Heather -- what happened was Heather and Katy Marakason and Steph -LJ: Marcos? SA: Marcos and I became closer. We did some things together. Mostly Steph and Heather and I. And I went to the groups, and I participated in the things that DOB had. And what I can remember is the Thanksgiving, we always had a big Thanksgiving thing. And I went to the groups. But, you know, with this little group of about 10 of us, we made our own plans then. [00:55:00] But we were DOB people. We weren’t separate from DOB. We were part of the DOB. And then there were other DOBers that would come, Rene Slack. But we had the DOB meeting, and we would go to, on Memorial Day weekend, we would go to whatever B&B that we decided to meet at. We filled it up. And then, in the wintertime, we went up to Bethlehem to go skiing, cross-country skiing, a bunch of us. And it was this DOB crowd, I would say. And then, when I met Linda and 21 �met Barbara and Carol and those people, they did games. They liked games, so we used to do games. LJ: Trivial Pursuit? SA: Yeah, right. And [00:56:00] so it was, you know, you went to DOB, and you -- I went to many of those groups just regularly. And then we would go out afterwards for coffee. But DOB was a spirit as much as a place. And we were all DOBers, and we identified as that, Jenny and Steph. It was like, “Who’s who.” So it was Nicky and Janet. Then it was Janet and Kathy. And then it was Nicky and Arlene. And then it was Nicky and -- you know. But we all stayed in the same little -- we never left the DOB parameters or the boundaries. We were all together, all the time. It was really fun. And yeah. And I don’t -LJ: You wouldn’t -- if I may interrupt -- you [00:57:00] wouldn’t probably have met if it had not been for DOB. SA: I would not have met Linda if it wasn’t for DOB. I don’t think I would have met any of those people if it wasn’t -- and that’s what, I think, was the magic of DOB, is that it was, first of all, a safe place when -- a lot of people came because they could not be out at work. I can’t remember if I was out at work by that time. But you couldn’t be out at work. You couldn’t be out to your family. You couldn’t be out. You had so many issues that, when you came to DOB, like you said, to even your house, you just left all of those outside. And Maureen... I’m so sorry, I can’t remember her last name, but it’s still coming up. But Heather’s partner, Maureen Maguire, had three kids. And [00:58:00] so she went to DOB because there was a mothers with children group. And she met Jan Shapiro there, who then became part of my circle in another way, because Jan Shapiro and her partner, Diane Shapiro -– we used to call them the Shapiro sisters –- had two boys. And then Heather and Maureen, they had kids. And Linda and I didn’t have kids. But we created what we called the Newton Social Club, because Jan and Dianne really couldn’t afford to have a babysitter and go out to dinner. So we would just trade around every month and have dinner at one of the houses. Mostly at their house, because then, they didn’t have to get a 22 �babysitter, you know? Because the kids were little. And so, there were so many connections to DOB. [00:59:00] Like, I’m friends of Jan Shapiro’s because Maureen went to DOB, met Jan, and brought her into my life. I never went to the mothers with children event. So it was just so much. And I did get involved. I did go to that meeting, and there were a couple of other meetings. But I actually wasn’t concentrating on the organization. There were. . . you and Sheri did a fine job, as far as I was concerned. And Barbara [Webber], Barbara was coordinating a lot of those. LJ: Oh, Barbara was, yes. SA: Yeah. And so, I think I entered into the spirit of it. I identified with it. And I am friends, to this day, with people that I met from DOB. But I didn’t, as I did with some of the other nonprofits I talked about, I didn’t take an interest in getting [01:00:00] into the organization of it. I just enjoyed it for what it was, which was fine. LJ: Well, that was one of its major reasons for being, was to bring women together. SA: Yes. Yeah. LJ: Yeah. Because where else could you meet lesbians? (laughs) In those days. Bars. SA: Right. I wouldn’t have met any of those people, not one. There wasn’t one that I had another association with, outside of DOB. LJ: Yeah. You would never. SA: There was nothing. And they’re so important to me, some of them. Joan and I are still friends. Joan is my financial advisor. LJ: Even to this day, yeah. SA: Yeah, to this day. Jenny, you know, I’m going to meet Jenny next week. Heather is still my best friend, one of my best friends. We’ve stayed close all through everything. SB: Can I just say, would it be safe to say that there have [01:01:00] been a lot of interviews we’ve done where people have said that they went to DOB because they were in the closet, and they had to get out, and that was the... Would it be safe to say that, you just said that you were out at work, 23 �and you were a little bit more out. You weren’t going to DOB to come out so much, as to meet other lesbians, let’s say. SA: Right. Because I was at Tufts, first of all. I did not, the first year, come out, because I didn’t want to lead with that, let’s say. You know? I wanted people to get to know me. But then Heather came along, and you know, when you have an ally... So somewhere along the line, I think by the second year at Tufts, I had come out to my classmates. They knew who I was. [01:02:00] But then when I went to work at the BHA -- oh, one of the interesting things about the BHA experience was, my roommate got a job at the BHA, separate from me getting an internship in the community services department. So, it just happened that way. And I didn’t lead her to the BHA. She didn’t lead me. We just both ended up in the community services department. And when I got to Tufts, it was interesting. When I got to Tufts, I didn’t know how to go about getting a place to stay and how much I should reveal and not reveal, and all that crazy stuff. So, I didn’t come out to my roommate at first, which luckily, she was fine when I did. And she was a wonderful woman. Nancy Foster was her name, and she was straight. But she was single. She’s about five, six years older than I was. And so [01:03:00] when I did tell her, finally, probably months and months later, I don’t remember, it was just fine, but it was a hard thing to -- that was one of my first coming outs, to her. But when I got to the BHA -- oh, and then -- so Nancy left, and I had to get a roommate. And so, this woman called Deb Cassidy came along. So, she’s just about ready to sign, and I said, I really should tell you that I’m a lesbian. She was like, “Okay, fine.” (laughter) So that really helped a lot, too. And then she went over to the BHA. So it was hard to be in when your roommate, who doesn’t care whether you’re a lesbian or not, is in the community services department, and you’re entering into it. So, everybody knew who I was. I just came in, out. I came in out at the BHA. So, that was easy. SB: That’s a good way to put it. LJ: Yeah, in and out. 24 �SA: Yeah. And again, it’s the [01:04:00] mid-‘80s by this time. People who have been in Boston for years were still dealing with their history of -- if they were teachers or, you know. But I was kind of fresh to all of this, so I could make a new start. Which is why I came, because it was killing me to stay in Erie in the closet. It just was killing. I mean literally killing me. I was drinking too much, and I know that’s why I was drinking, because I didn’t know how to resolve this problem. And so, when I came here, I was resolved to come out. But I did it in a very... I didn’t come out (imitates an explosion sound), you know? SB: Incremental. SA: Right. I just did it in a balanced way, I think. But I was not in the closet long, not long at all. LJ: Thank God. (laughs) SA: Really. It was so lib-- I mean, that’s why I came here. I wanted to be liberated. I wasn’t going to be in that... It wasn’t good. It just wasn’t good. [01:05:00] And when I was in Erie, I had a roommate early on, mid -- oh, I got the -- ‘78, say ‘78. My best friend, to this day, in Erie, Mary Kwiatkowski -- she came out. We were roommates. And she was a professional running something, I forget what, in Erie. And I was. And I had this vision of us being like a Boston marriage. That was my first plan A, out of -- that was my plan B, I should say. But then she took up with a woman. And I was like, “You’re just asking -- don’t do this. Don’t do this. You’re going to ruin your career. It’s just going to be a pile of crap. Don’t do it.” I was really so against her coming [01:06:00] out, it was amazing. But I was fighting with myself at the same time, too. LJ: That was one step. SB: Yeah. SA: Yeah. And here I was. I was the head of the domestic violence shelter, you know, when everybody was gay-baiting the women’s movement and everything. It was not a -- I mean, I wouldn’t trade it for anything. I thought that was the best job I had in my life. But that crushing thing against me being a lesbian. And so, I had to get out of it. I just couldn’t stay. I could not stay. And Mary won’t let me forget it to this day, (laughs) that I gave her such shit for coming out. 25 �LJ: Don’t we all have had that period in our lives. SA: Oh yeah, I think so. I think so. LAURA CATANZARO: [01:07:00] Might I ask, really putting together, let’s say, career and coming out, was there an element in your work with domestic violence, a feminist element that gave you a little bit of a foundation, potentially? Because lesbianism in the ‘70s and ‘80s came along with some feminism. SA: Oh yeah, absolutely it did. LC: Was there a connection for you? SA: Oh, it was. Actually, I was just... saw that ERA thing the other night, too, and I was reminiscing a bit. But in the ‘70s, I think I was actually -- I can’t remember -- I had to, because I knew Mary, and I met Mary through Hospitality House. But we were involved with the ERA. But I went down to the Pennsylvania Coalition Against Domestic Violence early meetings. And to me, it was like Oz. Because the founder of the Pennsylvania Coalition, the main drive, [01:08:00] was Barbara Hart, a legal services attorney, in Reading, Pennsylvania, who also was the drive for the National Coalition Against Domestic Violence. She is just a person to be reckoned with, really. And she was a lesbian, out lesbian. And then there was, like, you know, a professor. And then there was -- in other words, among this 16 or so women -LJ: Accomplished people. SA: They were accomplished, and there was like three lesbians there. And that was like, to me, it was an eye-opener. Because my friend, who was a lesbian, they were all radical, radical people. I mean, they had brains. But I also, because I was in the shelter, I met lesbians who were mentally ill, who were broken from whatever their experiences were. But they would come out, too, because they have nothing to lose, right? [01:09:00] But if you’re a Communist who’s lived up in Toronto, and then come back home to Erie for some strange reason, and you’re a lesbian, you’re out. But you don’t look like anybody in Erie anymore. And that was one of them. And then Julie, actually, the woman that I lived with for the first six months at the shelter, she was part of 26 �the PAX Center. She was a lesbian, but she was a celibate lesbian because she was an associate to the Benedictines. So, you know, I couldn’t -- I didn’t find the people that I was out there, in Erie. And this is, this sounds really stupid, but it’s the ’70s. But then, the ERA, there was one woman and her partner that were kind of leaders in the ERA area. Mary, my roommate Mary, became the -- well, then, things were evolving. So, the late-‘70s, things started to evolve. And by [01:10:00] 1980, I was involved in my first relationship, really, which didn’t last very long, but... I remember it to this day. (laughter) LJ: Yeah. SA: And it was through Pennsylvania Coalition. It was somebody who was part of the Pennsylvania Coalition. So I was well on my way out by the time I got to Boston. But that’s it. It drove -- the more I became associated with people that I wanted to aspire to be, free and open, the more I wanted to be free and open, and the less I could live in Erie. I had to go do something else. I just couldn’t -- I couldn’t stay. And I did feel like an immigrant. Not that I want to put it on the same level as the poor people that are leaving Honduras or anything, but when you’re forced out, you know... It was kind of a forced-out thing. Because I loved my [01:11:00] life in Erie. But it just wasn’t fitting. I mean, I loved being close to my family. I loved having cottages on the beach. I loved my job. But so much of that just was not a fit for me anymore. And I just had to realize that and go. LJ: It was a beginning of your life, to go. Well, I am overwhelmed with all this wonderful feeling and information. SA: Nobody has ever asked me a lot of this stuff before, so it’s really great to articulate it. LJ: It’s really -- you have articulated it so well, and it resonates with so many experiences I have heard, and I had myself. Is there anything else that you would like to add about any aspect of your interview? SA: Let me think. I think it made my social life so wonderful [01:12:00] when I first got here. And when I turned 40, which was 1987, just before I met Linda, we were in the heart of this group 27 �together. The ‘86, ‘87, it was May of 1987. And my crowd, you know, Janet and Nicky and that 10 I’m talking about or so, they said, “Well, what do you want to do for your birthday? Your 40th birthday?” And I said, “I want to have a picnic on the Esplanade.” I don’t know, you know? So, they did it. They pulled it together. And we went down. We didn’t think about bathrooms, so (laughter) we had people going behind bushes, right? LJ: It was (inaudible) summer. SA: Right? But I remember, I gave a toast. And I said, “In the middle of the city that I love, in the middle of the friends that I love, in the middle of the life that I love, here’s to [01:13:00] y’all.” And that’s just the way I felt. It put me -- DOB put me in such a wonderful place. I came here looking for support. I came to Boston looking for affirmation and support and friendship. And I don’t think I would have gotten it the same way if I hadn’t gone to DOB. I probably would have gotten it, but it would have been a much harder thing to do. And it would have been a much smaller support group. And it just has made my life -- and then it brought me Linda. The crowning achievement was finding somebody that you love, to be a partner with. And that occurred through DOB. So, I’m forever grateful to you, Lois, and all the people that put together DOB and kept it going. And that it was there for me. [01:14:00] It was lovely. LJ: That’s a wonderful interview. Do you folks have any other questions? SB: No. It is a wonderful interview. SA: Thank you. SB: Yeah, it really is. It’s a testimony to the work that you’ve done in your life, and a testimony to you. LJ: Indeed, it is a testimony to you. SA: Well, at 71, you kind of look back. And you think, “I wasn’t a bad kid. And boy, did I have a tough time.” You get a little perspective on your life after a while, instead of just walking through it. But I’m so glad I chose to come to Boston. And I’m so glad I met Heather, who led me to DOB. And it was great. 28 �LJ: It’s just amazing how one word, one sentence, one invitation, one kind deed that [01:15:00] drops into the well of life. And you never know how far the ripples go. SA: That is so true. That is so true. Living in a domestic violence shelter for two years, (laughs) I’ll tell you. It wasn’t even a domestic violence shelter. It was just a women’s shelter, so we saw everything. But yeah, yeah. You never know. LJ: This was amazing. Thank you for all the work you’ve done. SA: Thank you. I’m honored. I was really quite honored that you thought to call me. Because I didn’t feel like I was an outlier. I certainly thought that I was part of it. But I think of probably people that you are interviewing, Barbara and Carol and people that were organizing and holding it together and everything. LJ: Yes. Well, this concludes this interview. SB: Yeah. And it’s our honor to interview you. SA: Thank you. LJ: It is. END OF SHEILA ARDERY FILE 29 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Daughters of Bilitis (Boston) Oral History Project Description An account of the resource Through oral histories, 21 women share their stories of growing up, coming out, and joining the Boston chapter of the Daughters of Bilitis (DOB), the earliest known lesbian organization in the United States. DOB members came from diverse backgrounds, class, and education, but the rejection by one’s family, the stress of living a double life, and the search for a place to feel safe run through each narrative. Several storytellers knew they were lesbians in childhood, while others did not until their 30s and 40s. Some married men to conform to society’s expectations, while others fought to make an independent life for themselves. All found DOB, where they were accepted, loved, and nourished to grow into proud women, loving women. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Coll.0213 Relation A related resource <a href="https://historyproject.omeka.net/items/show/183" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">Coll. 011: Boston Daughters of Bilitis Collection and Focus/Maiden Voyage Publication Finding Aid</a> <a href="https://historyproject.omeka.net/collections/show/48" title="Digitized Materials">Digitized Materials: Focus/Maiden Voyage, a publication of the Boston chapter of the Daughters of Bilitis, 1969-1975</a> Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview. Boyer, Sarah; Catanzaro, Laura; Johnson, Lois Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed. Ardery, Sheila Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Sheila Ardery, 2019 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2019-03-15 Description An account of the resource Interview with Sheila Ardery for the Daughters of Bilitis Oral History Project. Interview conducted by Lois Johnson, Sarah Boyer, and Laura Catanzaro. Subject The topic of the resource Ardery, Sheila; Daughters of Bilitis (Boston); Lesbians; Lesbian movement Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available The History Project: Documenting LGBTQ+ Boston Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Copyright restrictions may apply. For more information and to view our takedown policy, visit https://historyproject.omeka.net/rights-and-reproductions. Daughters of Bilitis Oral history